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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.
Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.
Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.
I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.
great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.
personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.
Yeah this is my intention. I like to cook. I like to travel. I've spent years camping in tents and lean-too's and now? I'm over that phase of my life. I'm looking forward to comfort now.
My local ski hill has overnight parking. I could easily park at the lot that you need a season pass to get on, hit first lift with my wife. Come back have brunch. Ski until lunch, maybe have an après-ski mid day and then my wife could go relax and read while I ski unitl they close the lift.
Alternatively I like to fish. Here in NY we have lots of state access where you can start fishing 30 minutes before sun up. Its easy enough to find a spot be ready and be at the spot quickly enough. You probably can't get away with staying at the spot (regs say for fishing only). But there's always a place to boondock close by.
You hit the nail on the head. I want to add a diesel heater as redundancy. Belts and suspenders so to speak.
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SkiBumAt50
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05/08/23 11:25am |
Truck Campers
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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.
If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.
Cheers!
I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.
Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.
See this post for info on an air to air heat exchanger I made to fit in the sliding window under the bed. Sorry, photos were deleted by photo host. I have used it off and on for the past 10 years.
Heat exchanger for TC
Yeah I'd love to see pics, but I assume it's like a house cross flow air to air?
The design I have in mind would be more like a periscope with counter flow. My youngest has a 3D printer, so that and some square aluminum tube I could prototype some things pretty fast. A few computer fans, and an arduino set to keep delta below say 5 degrees and I think it could be pretty effective. Rough turn over on a computer fan might be 20-30 cfm per minute. Back of the napkin says an 1172 is about 640 cuft in volume. That puts me at 32 minutes per turn over (theoretical). If I could turn the unit over 3 times in a night I'd be happy. So it could run much slower of course.
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SkiBumAt50
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05/08/23 11:13am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Pantry Road Trips
There are a lot of things we pick up when we're in Central NY, unfortunately most of it never makes it to the pantry.
Salt Potatoes, Spiedies, Garbage Plates and City Chicken aren't really pantry items though are they?
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SkiBumAt50
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05/05/23 09:23am |
Camp Cooks and Connoisseurs
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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.
If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.
Cheers!
I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.
Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.
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SkiBumAt50
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05/05/23 07:52am |
Truck Campers
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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
There's actually two versions out there. First, is what everyone is kind of discussing. It uses diesel and an air to air heat exchanger to heat. So completely isolated external heating. The second, is used often in large commercial over the road trucks, and can have a variety of functions, including cab heat and engine preheat. It's a diesel water heater that heats the engine coolant.
Living in NY and parking overnight occasionally outside, I'll definitely be putting a diesel preheater on any Diesel truck I own. Some even have a neat app, where you can remotely start the preheat, and when you jump in your truck it starts all nice and warm.
Diesel heat is also common in marine applications, especially hydronic heat. Cirrus uses a system similar to what you find in a lot of sailboats, but LP powered. An example
Truma is a German company, and in Europe most the camper vans are diesel, so there's a lot of tech that already supports it.
Another leading tech provider is Webasto, who make similar systems, even a diesel RV cooktop.
Companies like Earthroamer have embraced it obviously because it eliminates an entire fuel source to depend on.
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SkiBumAt50
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05/05/23 07:43am |
Truck Campers
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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?
I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?
If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.
Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.
Mobile ski base. That's why.
I don't ski a couple of trips a year. I ski 2-3 times a week. For the add on of $250 bucks I can Ski in several places all over the country, here in NY there are several places in that range within 2-3 hours. Add in 6 hour drive and now you've added even more options.
I also fish on the Salmon River and I've done in it while it was snowing.
I work remotely. My kids are going off to college (one in a 2 years the others shortly after). I travel a lot especially in the NE for my job. They primarily won't be with me 90% of the time, like I said it'd be mostly my wife. We have a lake house for "family time".
I can easily drive to a ski resort, find a place to boondock, ski, work and drive home on a Wednesday for example (I've taken conferece calls at the ski slope and standing in a river). I was in Concord MA last week for business. In the winter there were 4-5 ski slopes I could have easily stopped at.
I don't seem to experience the wetness like you are describing. I drive with my Ski's and boots in the trunk of my car (arm rest pass through) and never have problems with moisture. My ski pants and jacket are generally pretty dry too, although this season we did get a lot of rain. My plan was to put the boots in the tub, and hang the rest on a coat hanger like I normally do. I throw my boots on a dryer when I get home, but don't know if I'd do that when traveling.
If I'm asking too much, I get that. It maybe just me dry camping then. Kenny of All Trades seems to do just fine dry camping. Even an afternoon of heat in the parking lot at a ski resort is fine for my wife. I tend to ski way longer than she does, and if she could kick back and read a book after she's done that would suit her well.
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SkiBumAt50
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05/04/23 09:56am |
Truck Campers
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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
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SkiBumAt50
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05/04/23 09:24am |
Truck Campers
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RE: How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
Thanks all for the comments. I get that I maybe asking a lot of the camper. While it's an expensive task, I'm not ready for a full Earthroamer yet. I'm a hobbyist and have done a fair bit of fabrication, and it's hard for me to not just say Ef it, and build one myself. I don't have the time for that.
@photomike My plan for the diesel heater was redundancy. I think I can possibly use a coolant heater and add a heater core to the unit. Quick disconnects for water to recirculate with the engine heater. It would serve a dual purpose and allow engine heat to warm the unit while on the road. Honestly if my wife isn't with me (She likely won't go as often as me) I can skip a day of showering. I thought about Vans honestly, all in it's way easier but I need the truck for my Car Hobby, and some other things.
@Notsobigjoe Yeah you know my area then. Which way EJ? Anyway... That's a lot of what I was thinking. I've looked at some of the doors and such, and they're not robust enough or sealed totally. I honestly like sleeping in the cold so if the unit is in the 50's at night I'm ok with that, so long as the pipes are kept warm enough. I'm an Engineer and even thought if I could fabricate an air to air heat exchanger I could figure a way out to dry out the air some, we'll see. I need to step back sometimes and not spiral away into details.
In the end, no plan survives contact with the enemy, so it might be I just need to get one and see what works.
Thanks all.
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SkiBumAt50
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05/03/23 09:42am |
Truck Campers
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How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?
Ok, so lots of questions.
First off, let me introduce myself. I've got 3 kids who will all be off to college in the next 5 years or so. My wife and I have always loved traveling and we are avid skiers (Me moreso than her). We live in Upstate NY and have 2 dogs and a Cat.
So for when the kids go off to college for my next adventure I've settled on getting a truck camper. I've ruled out other vehicles for a few reasons. First, I have some towing needs, that some of the 4x4 vans can't accommodate. My two big goals for the TC are using it to drive to different ski resorts here in the North East, and driving it to fishing spots to fly fish. I will get a 4x4 but have no intentions of wheeling it hard; just rough roads and bad weather.
I think I've settled on a Lance 1172 or possibly a 975. I'll mate it to a Ford F550, (possibly super single conversion.) although I haven't decided on the upfitter yet.
I have a large shop that I can park it in, that's heated even in the winter. I built it with an RV in mind so large overhead door, electric drop, pull through, etc.
So first question, those of you that use your water in the winter I assume you are driving with the heat on? I'm pretty handy and would even consider adding a diesel heater to supplement in the winter. This really works if my wife can hop in and go, take showers, use the toilet etc. She doesn't Ski as much as me and is more than happy to go back and kick back with a book while I chase the last lift.
Those of you with the larger Lances what's your experience been? My typical winters here in NY are often down in the single digits (-17C for my Canadian friends) and while I've seen the Lances in person a few times it seems like maybe they'd need a bit more customizing to boost the low end? Do people find the bed warm enough in the really cold? I know some people use the bed systems to get an air gap, etc.
We've been to a few RV shows and the Lance seems to fit our needs the best. I like the room versus Bigfoot, and they seem to be a little more modern than Northern Lite, especially now with the Truma heating and AC. Does anyone use the dehumidifier in the winter? Hows that work?
I also work remotely and might occasionally take it for customer visits if I can reasonably get away with it, so I'll likely equip it with decent internet.
Anyone have any experiences similar to this they care to share? Am I asking too much of it?
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SkiBumAt50
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05/01/23 12:41pm |
Truck Campers
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